Euthyphro

Perseus Greek · Perseus Greek · 233 sections

14.6
Socrates. But how about the many fine results the gods accomplish? What is the chief result of their work?
14.7
Euthyphro. I told you a while ago, Socrates, that it is a long task to learn accurately all about these things. However, I say simply that when one knows how to say and do what is gratifying to the gods, in praying and sacrificing, that is holiness, and such things bring salvation to individual families and to states; and the opposite of what is gratifying to the gods is impious, and that overturns and destroys everything.
14.8
Socrates. You might, if you wished, Euthyphro, have answered much more briefly the chief part of my question. But it is plain that you do not care to instruct me. For now, when you were close upon it you turned aside; and if you had answered it, I should already have obtained from you all the instruction I need about holiness. But, as things are, the questioner must follow the one questioned wherever he leads. What do you say the holy, or holiness, is? Do you not say that it is a kind of science of sacrificing and praying?
14.9
Euthyphro. Yes.
14.10
Socrates. And sacrificing is making gifts to the gods and praying is asking from them?
14.11
Euthyphro. Exactly, Socrates.
14.12
Socrates. Then holiness, according to this definition, would be a science of giving and asking.
14.13
Euthyphro. You understand perfectly what I said, Socrates.
14.14
Socrates. Yes, my friend, for I am eager for your wisdom, and give my mind to it, so that nothing you say shall fall to the ground. But tell me, what is this service of the gods? Do you say that it consists in asking from them and giving to them?
14.15
Euthyphro. Yes.
14.16
Socrates. Would not the right way of asking be to ask of them what we need from them?
14.17
Euthyphro. What else?
14.18
Socrates. And the right way of giving, to present them with what they need from us? For it would not be scientific giving to give anyone what he does not need.
14.19
Euthyphro. You are right, Socrates.
14.20
Socrates. Then holiness would be an art of barter between gods and men?
14.21
Euthyphro. Yes, of barter, if you like to call it so.
15.1
Socrates. I don’t like to call it so, if it is not true. But tell me, what advantage accrues to the gods from the gifts they get from us? For everybody knows what they give, since we have nothing good which they do not give. But what advantage do they derive from what they get from us? Or have we so much the better of them in our bartering that we get all good things from them and they nothing from us?
15.2
Euthyphro. Why you don’t suppose, Socrates, that the gods gain any advantage from what they get from us, do you?
15.3
Socrates. Well then, what would those gifts of ours to the gods be?
15.4
Euthyphro. What else than honor and praise, and, as I said before, gratitude?
15.5
Socrates. Then, Euthyphro, holiness is grateful to the gods, but not advantageous or precious to the gods?
15.6
Euthyphro. I think it is precious, above all things.
15.7
Socrates. Then again, it seems, holiness is that which is precious to the gods.
15.8
Euthyphro. Certainly.
15.9
Socrates. Then will you be surprised, since you say this, if your words do not remain fixed but walk about, and will you accuse me of being the Daedalus who makes them walk, when you are yourself much more skilful than Daedalus and make them go round in a circle? Or do you not see that our definition has come round to the point from which it started? For you remember, I suppose, that a while ago we found that holiness and what is dear to the gods were not the same, but different from each other; or do you not remember?
15.10
Euthyphro. Yes, I remember.
15.11
Socrates. Then don’t you see that now you say that what is precious to the gods is holy? And is not this what is dear to the gods?
15.12
Euthyphro. Certainly.
15.13
Socrates. Then either our agreement a while ago was wrong, or if that was right, we are wrong now.
15.14
Euthyphro. So it seems.
15.15
Socrates. Then we must begin again at the beginning and ask what holiness is. Since I shall not willingly give up until I learn. And do not scorn me, but by all means apply your mind now to the utmost and tell me the truth; for you know, if anyone does, and like Proteus, you must be held until you speak. For if you had not clear knowledge of holiness and unholiness, you would surely not have undertaken to prosecute your aged father for murder for the sake of a servant. You would have been afraid to risk the anger of the gods, in case your conduct should be wrong, and would have been ashamed in the sight of men. But now I am sure you think you know what is holy and what is not. So tell me, most excellent Euthyphro, and do not conceal your thought.
15.16
Euthyphro. Some other time, Socrates. Now I am in a hurry and it is time for me to go.
16.1
Socrates. Oh my friend, what are you doing? You go away and leave me cast down from the high hope I had that I should learn from you what is holy, and what is not, and should get rid of Meletus’s indictment by showing him that I have been made wise by Euthyphro about divine matters and am no longer through ignorance acting carelessly and making innovations in respect to them, and that I shall live a better life henceforth.

Perseus Greek. CTS URN tlg0059.tlg001.perseus-eng2. Via the Perseus Digital Library / Open Greek and Latin TEI corpora. Licence: CC BY-SA 4.0. Source.