Clouds

Perseus Greek · Perseus Greek · 715 sections

887b
I will take my departure. Remember this now, that he is to be able to reply to all just arguments.
889
Come hither! Show yourself to the spectators, although being audacious.
891
Go whither you please; for I shall far rather do for you, if I speak before a crowd.
893
You destroy me? Who are you?
893b
A cause.
893c
Ay, the worse.
894
But I conquer you, who say that you are better than I.
895b
By doing what clever trick?
896
By discovering new contrivances.
897
For these innovations flourish by the favour of these silly persons.
899
No; but wise persons.
899b
I will destroy you miserably.
900
Tell me, by doing what?
900b
By speaking what is just.
901
But I will overturn them by contradicting them; for I deny that justice even exists at all.
903
Do you deny that it exists?
903b
For come, where is it?
904
With the gods.
904a
How, then, if justice exists, has Jupiter not perished, who bound his own father?
906b
Bah! This profanity now is spreading! Give me a basin.
908
You are a dotard and absurd.
909
You are debauched and shameless.
910
You have spoken roses of me.
910b
And a dirty lickspittle.
911
You crown me with lilies.
911b
And a parricide.
912
You don’t know that you are sprinkling me with gold.
913
Certainly not so formerly, but with lead.
914
But now this is an ornament to me.
915
You are very impudent.
915b
And you are antiquated.
916
And through you, no one of our youths is willing to go to school; and you will be found out some time or other by the Athenians, what sort of doctrines you teach the simple-minded.
920
You are shamefully squalid.
920b
And you are prosperous. And yet formerly you were a beggar saying that you were the Mysian Telephus, and gnawing the maxims of Pandeletus out of your little wallet.
925
Oh, the wisdom—
925b
Oh, the madness—
926
Which you have mentioned.
927
And of your city, which supports you who ruin her youths.
929
You shan’t teach this youth, you old dotard.
930
Yes, if he is to be saved, and not merely to practise loquacity.
932
Come hither, and leave him to rave.
933
You shall howl, if you lay your hand on him.
934
Cease from contention and railing.
935
But show to us, you, what you used to teach the men of former times, and you, the new system of education; in order that, having heard you disputing, he may decide and go to the school of one or the other.
939
I am willing to do so.
939b
I also am willing.
940
Come now, which of the two shall speak first?
941
I will give him the precedence; and then, from these things which he adduces, I will shoot him dead with new words and thoughts.
945
And at last, if he mutter, he shall be destroyed, being stung in his whole face and his two eyes by my maxims, as if by bees.
949
Now the two, relying on very dexterous arguments and thoughts, and sententious maxims, will show which of them shall appear superior in argument.
955
For now the whole crisis of wisdom is here laid before them; about which my friends have a very great contest.
959
But do you, who adorned our elders with many virtuous manners, utter the voice in which you rejoice, and declare your nature.
961
I will, therefore, describe the ancient system of education, how it was ordered, when I flourished in the advocacy of justice, and temperance was the fashion. In the first place it was incumbent that no one should hear the voice of a boy uttering a syllable; and next, that those from the same quarter of the town should march in good order through the streets to the school of the harp-master,
965
naked, and in a body, even if it were to snow as thick as meal. Then again, their master would teach them, not sitting cross-legged, to learn by rote a song, either Παλλάδα περσέπολιν δεινὰν or τηλέπορόν τι βόαμα raising to a higher pitch the harmony which our fathers transmitted to us. But if any of them were to play the buffoon, or to turn any quavers,
970
like these difficult turns the present artists make after the manner of Phrynis, he used to be thrashed, being beaten with many blows, as banishing the Muses. And it behooved the boys, while sitting in the school of the Gymnastic-master, to cover the thigh, so that they might exhibit nothing indecent to those outside;
975
then again, after rising from the ground, to sweep the sand together, and to take care not to leave an impression of the person for their lovers. And no boy used in those days to anoint himself below the navel; so that their bodies wore the appearance of blooming health. Nor used he to go to his lover, having made up his voice in an effeminate tone,
980
prostituting himself with his eyes. Nor used it to be allowed when one was dining to take the head of the radish, or to snatch from their seniors dill or parsley, or to eat fish, or to giggle, or to keep the legs crossed.
984
Aye, antiquated and dipolia-like and full of grasshoppers, and of Cecydes, and of the Buphonian festival!
985b
Yet certainly these are those principles by which my system of education nurtured the men who fought at Marathon. But you teach the men of the present day, so that I am choked, when at the Panathenaia a fellow, holding his shield before his person, neglects Tritogenia, when they ought to dance.
990
Wherefore, O youth, choose with confidence, me, the better cause, and you will learn to hate the Agora, and to refrain from baths, and to be ashamed of what is disgraceful, and to be enraged if any one jeer you, and to rise up from seats before your seniors when they approach, and not to behave ill toward your parents, and to do nothing else
995
that is base, because you are to form in your mind an image of Modesty: and not to dart into the house of a dancing-woman, lest, while gaping after these things, being struck with an apple by a wanton, you should be damaged in your reputation: and not to contradict your father in anything; nor by calling him Iapetus, to reproach him with the ills of age, by which you were reared in your infancy.
1000
If you shall believe him in this, O youth, by Bacchus, you will be like the sons of Hippocrates, and they will call you a booby.
1002
Yet certainly shall you spend your time in the gymnastic schools, sleek and blooming; not chattering in the market-place rude jests, like the youths of the present day; nor dragged into court for a petty suit, greedy, pettifogging, knavish;
1005
but you shall descend to the Academy and run races beneath the sacred olives along with some modest compeer, crowned with white reeds, redolent of yew, and careless ease, of leaf-shedding white poplar, rejoicing in the season of spring, when the plane-tree whispers to the elm.
1009
If you do these things which I say, and apply your mind to these, you will ever have a stout chest, a clear complexion, broad shoulders, a little tongue, large hips, little lewdness.
1015
But if you practise what the youths of the present day do, you will have in the first place, a pallid complexion, small shoulders, a narrow chest, a large tongue, little hips, great lewdness,
1020
a long psephism; and this deceiver will persuade you to consider everything that is base to be honourable, and what is honourable to be base; and in addition to this, he will fill you with the lewdness of Antimachus.
1024
O thou that practisest most renowned high-towering wisdom! How sweetly does a modest grace attend your words! Happy, therefore, were they who lived in those days, in the times
1030
of former men! In reply, then, to these, O thou that hast a dainty-seeming Muse, it behooveth thee to say something new; since the man has gained renown.
1034
And it appears you have need of powerful arguments against him, if you are to conquer the man and not incur laughter.
1036
And yet I was choking in my heart, and was longing to confound all these with contrary maxims. For I have been called among the deep thinkers the worse cause on this very account, that I first contrived how
1040
to speak against both law and justice; and this art is worth more than ten thousand staters, that one should choose the worse cause, and nevertheless be victorious. But mark how I will confute the system of education on which he relies, who says, in the first place, that he will not permit you to be washed with warm water.
1045
And yet, on what principle do you blame the warm baths?
1046
Because it is most vile, and makes a man cowardly.
1047
Stop! For immediately I seize and hold you by the waist without escape. Come, tell me, which of the sons of Jupiter do you deem to have been the bravest in soul, and to have undergone most labours?
1050
I consider no man superior to Hercules.
1051
Where, pray, did you ever see cold Herculean baths? And yet, who was more valiant than he?
1052b
These are the very things which make the bath full of youths always chattering all day long, but the palaestras empty.
1055
You next find fault with their living in the market-place; but I commend it. For if it had been bad, Homer would never have been for representing Nestor as an orator; nor all the other wise men. I will return, then, from thence to the tongue, which this fellow says our youths ought not to exercise, while I maintain they should.
1060
And again, he says they ought to be modest: two very great evils. For tell me to whom you have ever seen any good accrue through modesty and confute me by your words.
1063
To many. Peleus, at any rate, received his sword on account of it.
1064
A sword? Marry, he got a pretty piece of luck, the poor wretch! While Hyperbolus, he of the lamps, got more than many talents by his villainy, but by Jupiter, no sword!
1067
And Peleus married Thetis, too, through his modesty.
1068
And then she went off and left him; for he was not lustful, nor an agreeable bedfellow to spend the night with.
1070
Now a woman delights in being wantonly treated. But you are an old dotard. For (to Phidippides). consider, O youth, all that attaches to modesty, and of how many pleasures you are about to be deprived—of women, of games at cottabus, of dainties, of drinking-bouts, of giggling. And yet, what is life worth to you if you be deprived of these enjoyments?
1075
Well, I will pass from thence to the necessities of our nature. You have gone astray, you have fallen in love, you have been guilty of some adultery, and then have been caught. You are undone, for you are unable to speak. But if you associate with me, indulge your inclination, dance, laugh, and think nothing disgraceful. For if you should happen to be detected as an adulterer, you will make this reply to him,
1080
that you have done him no injury: and then refer him to Jupiter, how even he is overcome by love and women . And yet, how could you, who are a mortal, have greater power than a god?
1083
But what if he should suffer the radish through obeying you, and be depillated with hot ashes? What argument will he be able to state, to prove that he is not a blackguard?
1085
And if he be a blackguard, what harm will he suffer?
1086
Nay, what could he ever suffer still greater than this?
1087
What then will you say if you be conquered by me in this?
1088
I will be silent: what else can I do?
1088b
Come, now, tell me; from what class do the advocates come?
1090
From the blackguards.
1090b
I believe you. What then? From what class do tragedians come?
1092
From the blackguards.
1092b
You say well. But from what class do the public orators come?
1094
From the blackguards.
1094b
Then have you perceived that you say nothing to the purpose? And look which class among the audience is the more numerous.
1097b
Well now, I’m looking.

Perseus Greek. CTS URN tlg0019.tlg003.perseus-eng2. Via the Perseus Digital Library / Open Greek and Latin TEI corpora. Licence: Available under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. Source.